Ted's son clarity of thoughts and his Dad couching them very well . It brought me back to my Maverick of a husband 40+ years ago who would have agreed with it when he was alive. I was clueless then and he never proselytized. He and his favorite authors are now valuable guides when I feel a little bit lost.
And he never felt like being The lone Ranger was a problem and would have agreed thoroughly about the sequence of things to be handled for the best chance of not having a continuous Groundhog Day of crises over umpteen years.
MI
Sometime it's hard to face the fact that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting changes" (probably falsely attributed to Einstein even though I like the guy).
When extremes are competing with each other with the chance of victory being dimmer than dim, starting from scratch and yes with younger folks who refuse to be brainwashed into opposite factions, can be the light at the end of a long tunnel. I am soon to be 78 so I definitely hope it will happen for those meant to stay longer on this planet. But this can only be done after "the multiple headed Hydra of terrorism" is first handled. It's not only an Israel problem, it's a World one. I think of you Israel, and I think of us, Israel.
It's not blood lust Ted. We're talking about imposing the death penalty (which is now law) for terrorists who murder Jews in cold blood.
The fact that Israel never had a death penalty in the past gave the Arabs a green light to keep on spilling Jewish blood.
Think about it: if you were a Haji look at all the benefits you get for slaughtering just ONE Jew:
1. You'd be a national hero and your family would receive a nice cash award for your service. (Fatima gets her new car).
2. Ditto for suicide bombers. However, a suicide bomber gets an additional bonus of 70 VIRGINS (oy vey) to enjoy in the next world!
Every Haji knows that slaughtering Jews is a total win even if he gets killed. Even 10 consecutive life sentences doesn't faze them, because they are still heroes back home AND they know they will be set free in the next prisoner exchange .
That being said, can you see how our aversion to "blood lust" is an iron clad guarantee that we will see more acts of violence towards Jews in the future?
We must take away the Hajis' incentive to murder Jews. First, TAKE NO PRISONERS. No prisoners- nothing to "exchange".
Arab culture is obsessed with kavod. If we show terrorists on tv being executed by JEWS , that would be the most humiliating, painful, and effective deterrent of all.
That is my point though. 1. We are not part of that culture and our view of the world is much different. I do not think changing that view or outlook would do us any good and indeed it would destroy all that we hold dear in our morality system.
2. the death penalty is something that must be examined. remember though that if it is instituted the next hostage to be taken, and there will be a next one, because Hamas are not the only animals out there, will be killed live on television. I am fairly sure Israel could not withstand that type of pressure.
3. Where is the line drawn? Look at the death penalty in the USA where it is allowed. First people languish for years in death row. next if you are one day younger than 18 when you commited the crime u cannot get the death penalty. Patently idiotic of course but that is the result of the crazy idiots running the asylum as it were. so doing that in Israel will just force the left to fight for the poor terrorists. it will again polarize the country.
and finally I have a little trouble with that kind of revenge. all I will say is that it never ever ends well. and I know u don't see it as revenge and it probably should be called punishment. still it is opening a can of worms that once opened well that is Pandora's Box IMHO.
Agreed that we must restrict the use of the death penalty in Israel. It can indeed turn into a Pandora's box!
For now, let's keep the discussion focused on the death penalty vis a vis Arab terrorists.
Do we have the right to use vengeance as a tool of justice? Are we sinking to "their level" by doing so?
Rav Avigdor Miller zt"l was once asked about revenge on one of his weekly Thurday night talks. This is what he answered:
"It's a universally accepted principle that retribution has an important place in this world.
Whenever we encounter injustice, a Jew should never say , 'Why kill the murderer? The victim is dead anyway".
But the Torah says, "NO".
קול דמי אחיך צעקים אלי מן האדמה-
"The voice of the murdered man cries out from the earth" ( Bereishis 4:10).
Without vengeance, the world becomes a cesspool . Only vengeance keeps mankind in check. We must take up the cause of the victims. "
You should ask the families of the victims if executing the murderers would provide any benefit or closure. I have no doubt they will all scream "YES"!
I have a firm law. I do not discuss religious principals especially on here. As I wrote in the article these remarks came from.
I disagree. By inculcating vengeance into our actions, we are doing our children a disservice. I just do not see it. If the death penalty is introduced for terrorists, it must be done out from a purely prophylactic measure. Not out of some vengeful blood lust. haven't we had enough blood in our history? I am worried about "revenge." It takes on a life of its own and has no fences. That is what I meant about opening Pandora's Box.
I will leave the rabbinic personalities out of this. They - across the board - from Haredi to Zionist - totally failed. I think they should be paying attention to the reams of Responsa they will have to be writing due to this war and the advent of AI in the years to come.
I find the quibbling as if this was "Pilpul" in a Beit Midrash that goes on these days, an anathema to all that I know to be true. But that is another discussion to which I will not get into now. Too much to do today. :)
My former Vietnam Special Forces spouse wholeheartedly agrees with your son. With a few additions:
1. Get Tzahal out of Gaza. Yesterday. We lost the was on the first day. There is no way to win a war in tunnels and urban areas. We are outnumbered and unfamiliar with Hamas' turf.
This war is Vietnam all over again. After 10 years of warfare, the Americans still couldn't kill every "Charlie". .
At the very end of the Vietnam War my husband was deployed to Hue with a secret elite Special Forces unit that specialized in hostage recovery and outwitting "Charlie".
Except for my husband and four others, all 600 Green Berets were slaughtered immediately upon their arrival in Hue . They never had a chance.
To this day my husband is tormented by the thought that his own government planned the slaughter of their most dedicated and highly trained patriots. WHY?
Like Oct 7, the survivors in Hue also had working radios and knew that their frantic calls for help were received by the central command. But to their total shock and dismay the only response from the other end was SILENCE. Crickets.
No historian has ever offered a plausible explanation for the Hue fiasco. I guess it's no wonder since the details of that massacre are still classified in some vault for eternity. No FOIA requests accepted.
Starting to sound familiar?
A similar weird scene transpired 20 years later when my husband was a Tzahal commander stationed in
the Bakaa Valley during Lebanon 2.
(Hold it- Tzahal was fighting in
BAKAA? )
Of COURSE. Bakaa was the main dope growing and production center of the world before the rodeo moved to Afghanistan, wasn't it?
Well, that being the case, I suppose that America's 10 year bloodbath in Nam was really meant to "protect" it's most profitable corporation : DOPE INC.
Regarding a possible "happy ending ":to this nightmare:
Instead of sacrificing our own soldiers for nothing - try switching gears. Agree to a ceasefire in exchange for as many hostages as we can get - dead or alive.
Build a huge buffer zone in Gaza so this never happens again.
Then put the fear of God into those animals by staging public executions of every Hamas member rotting in our jails. Time to bring back the guillotine.
Or let one of those 7 foot tall Christian cowboy volunteers be the executioner. Everyone will be invited to film the event and upload it to every corner of the planet .
The only thing those monsters respect and fear is extreme force and violence.We must give them a taste of their own medicine
I can understand the historical perspective. My morality does not believe in public executions, and I am on the fence about the death penalty in Israel for terrorists. That could really backfire. But your comments are well taken and certainly have historical perspective. I just could not put my own thoughts nor vote behind a public execution. That is blood lust. And God help all of us if we give in to blood lust. MHO.
I truly like this post, including
Ted's son clarity of thoughts and his Dad couching them very well . It brought me back to my Maverick of a husband 40+ years ago who would have agreed with it when he was alive. I was clueless then and he never proselytized. He and his favorite authors are now valuable guides when I feel a little bit lost.
And he never felt like being The lone Ranger was a problem and would have agreed thoroughly about the sequence of things to be handled for the best chance of not having a continuous Groundhog Day of crises over umpteen years.
MI
Sometime it's hard to face the fact that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting changes" (probably falsely attributed to Einstein even though I like the guy).
When extremes are competing with each other with the chance of victory being dimmer than dim, starting from scratch and yes with younger folks who refuse to be brainwashed into opposite factions, can be the light at the end of a long tunnel. I am soon to be 78 so I definitely hope it will happen for those meant to stay longer on this planet. But this can only be done after "the multiple headed Hydra of terrorism" is first handled. It's not only an Israel problem, it's a World one. I think of you Israel, and I think of us, Israel.
Dearest Claire,
In your last paragraph you said it better than I could ever have said it. As To the Einstein Comment see: https://viewfromisrael.substack.com/p/is-israel-bordering-on-insanity
Thank you, Ted and to your son as well!
It's not blood lust Ted. We're talking about imposing the death penalty (which is now law) for terrorists who murder Jews in cold blood.
The fact that Israel never had a death penalty in the past gave the Arabs a green light to keep on spilling Jewish blood.
Think about it: if you were a Haji look at all the benefits you get for slaughtering just ONE Jew:
1. You'd be a national hero and your family would receive a nice cash award for your service. (Fatima gets her new car).
2. Ditto for suicide bombers. However, a suicide bomber gets an additional bonus of 70 VIRGINS (oy vey) to enjoy in the next world!
Every Haji knows that slaughtering Jews is a total win even if he gets killed. Even 10 consecutive life sentences doesn't faze them, because they are still heroes back home AND they know they will be set free in the next prisoner exchange .
That being said, can you see how our aversion to "blood lust" is an iron clad guarantee that we will see more acts of violence towards Jews in the future?
We must take away the Hajis' incentive to murder Jews. First, TAKE NO PRISONERS. No prisoners- nothing to "exchange".
Arab culture is obsessed with kavod. If we show terrorists on tv being executed by JEWS , that would be the most humiliating, painful, and effective deterrent of all.
That is my point though. 1. We are not part of that culture and our view of the world is much different. I do not think changing that view or outlook would do us any good and indeed it would destroy all that we hold dear in our morality system.
2. the death penalty is something that must be examined. remember though that if it is instituted the next hostage to be taken, and there will be a next one, because Hamas are not the only animals out there, will be killed live on television. I am fairly sure Israel could not withstand that type of pressure.
3. Where is the line drawn? Look at the death penalty in the USA where it is allowed. First people languish for years in death row. next if you are one day younger than 18 when you commited the crime u cannot get the death penalty. Patently idiotic of course but that is the result of the crazy idiots running the asylum as it were. so doing that in Israel will just force the left to fight for the poor terrorists. it will again polarize the country.
and finally I have a little trouble with that kind of revenge. all I will say is that it never ever ends well. and I know u don't see it as revenge and it probably should be called punishment. still it is opening a can of worms that once opened well that is Pandora's Box IMHO.
Agreed that we must restrict the use of the death penalty in Israel. It can indeed turn into a Pandora's box!
For now, let's keep the discussion focused on the death penalty vis a vis Arab terrorists.
Do we have the right to use vengeance as a tool of justice? Are we sinking to "their level" by doing so?
Rav Avigdor Miller zt"l was once asked about revenge on one of his weekly Thurday night talks. This is what he answered:
"It's a universally accepted principle that retribution has an important place in this world.
Whenever we encounter injustice, a Jew should never say , 'Why kill the murderer? The victim is dead anyway".
But the Torah says, "NO".
קול דמי אחיך צעקים אלי מן האדמה-
"The voice of the murdered man cries out from the earth" ( Bereishis 4:10).
Without vengeance, the world becomes a cesspool . Only vengeance keeps mankind in check. We must take up the cause of the victims. "
You should ask the families of the victims if executing the murderers would provide any benefit or closure. I have no doubt they will all scream "YES"!
I have a firm law. I do not discuss religious principals especially on here. As I wrote in the article these remarks came from.
I disagree. By inculcating vengeance into our actions, we are doing our children a disservice. I just do not see it. If the death penalty is introduced for terrorists, it must be done out from a purely prophylactic measure. Not out of some vengeful blood lust. haven't we had enough blood in our history? I am worried about "revenge." It takes on a life of its own and has no fences. That is what I meant about opening Pandora's Box.
I will leave the rabbinic personalities out of this. They - across the board - from Haredi to Zionist - totally failed. I think they should be paying attention to the reams of Responsa they will have to be writing due to this war and the advent of AI in the years to come.
I find the quibbling as if this was "Pilpul" in a Beit Midrash that goes on these days, an anathema to all that I know to be true. But that is another discussion to which I will not get into now. Too much to do today. :)
My former Vietnam Special Forces spouse wholeheartedly agrees with your son. With a few additions:
1. Get Tzahal out of Gaza. Yesterday. We lost the was on the first day. There is no way to win a war in tunnels and urban areas. We are outnumbered and unfamiliar with Hamas' turf.
This war is Vietnam all over again. After 10 years of warfare, the Americans still couldn't kill every "Charlie". .
At the very end of the Vietnam War my husband was deployed to Hue with a secret elite Special Forces unit that specialized in hostage recovery and outwitting "Charlie".
Except for my husband and four others, all 600 Green Berets were slaughtered immediately upon their arrival in Hue . They never had a chance.
To this day my husband is tormented by the thought that his own government planned the slaughter of their most dedicated and highly trained patriots. WHY?
Like Oct 7, the survivors in Hue also had working radios and knew that their frantic calls for help were received by the central command. But to their total shock and dismay the only response from the other end was SILENCE. Crickets.
No historian has ever offered a plausible explanation for the Hue fiasco. I guess it's no wonder since the details of that massacre are still classified in some vault for eternity. No FOIA requests accepted.
Starting to sound familiar?
A similar weird scene transpired 20 years later when my husband was a Tzahal commander stationed in
the Bakaa Valley during Lebanon 2.
(Hold it- Tzahal was fighting in
BAKAA? )
Of COURSE. Bakaa was the main dope growing and production center of the world before the rodeo moved to Afghanistan, wasn't it?
Well, that being the case, I suppose that America's 10 year bloodbath in Nam was really meant to "protect" it's most profitable corporation : DOPE INC.
Regarding a possible "happy ending ":to this nightmare:
Instead of sacrificing our own soldiers for nothing - try switching gears. Agree to a ceasefire in exchange for as many hostages as we can get - dead or alive.
Build a huge buffer zone in Gaza so this never happens again.
Then put the fear of God into those animals by staging public executions of every Hamas member rotting in our jails. Time to bring back the guillotine.
Or let one of those 7 foot tall Christian cowboy volunteers be the executioner. Everyone will be invited to film the event and upload it to every corner of the planet .
The only thing those monsters respect and fear is extreme force and violence.We must give them a taste of their own medicine
I can understand the historical perspective. My morality does not believe in public executions, and I am on the fence about the death penalty in Israel for terrorists. That could really backfire. But your comments are well taken and certainly have historical perspective. I just could not put my own thoughts nor vote behind a public execution. That is blood lust. And God help all of us if we give in to blood lust. MHO.